This was over in the comments of another one, but I wanted to give her a post of her own until she gives me permission to make her a contributor.
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I have dealt with/ talked lot of my abuse issues (sexual, emotional, etc, though not much on my blog), but I also know it's a constant process and battle. I'm thankful my husband is very supportive.
I left the IC a little over a month ago. The counselor I was seeing through it became pretty judgemental when I told him what I was doing. I had to stop seeing him too. Also, many of the friends I had there are barely around now... it's tough, but I sort of sensed it was gonna happen in a way. What I did scares them, I can tell... so I guess you can all pray for me in this new place I'm at... I've had some wonderful breakthroughs since leaving, but today was a very tough day... I wasn't feeling well either.
I'm a stay at home mom, my daughter is almost 4....I'm hoping tomorrow will be better- When I have a rough day then next day is usually better-
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Gosh that first month is like pure, unadulterated hell, I know, and I wish I could spare you the pain.
It's like finding out that so much of your life and the people and relationships in it are a lie, and it sure reveals who everyone is.
Big hugs to you sweetheart!!! It is so hard, nothing easy about it. I will sure pray that you will just be able to keep breathing and get through to the other side.
Manuela, welcome. Would you like a cup of tea or coffee? Tyler, those cookies done yet?
I remember when I walked away... the anger as I realized what what a sucker I had been to buy into the phony love and community. And as time passed, and no one called to see how I was, the hurt that these people I had labored with for 7 years really weren't friends at all.
Of course, there were others things that I talk about in my blogs, but man, the wondering if your losing your mind or turning to the dark side of deceived... buy, that was a big one for a while - still crops up from time to time. My ex-pastor used to teach that women were more easily deceived than men. Hmm... the day I resigned from leadership, he told me if I got out from under the pastoral covering, especially since I wasn't married, I would be wide open to being deceived. What a load of BS. But it messed with me for a while.
I hope you'll pull up a chair and stay a while - and come to visit often.
Manuela - I don't really know you, but I've seen you around the blogs, and I'm glad to meet you.
I, too, left church, about three and a half years ago. Everyone's experiences are different, but I do know many of the after-effects of leaving a body that is such a big part of our lives are a huge endeavor for anyone. We lose so much and sometimes it's so hard.
I was (and am) a stay home mom, too, so it can be frightening to wonder where your friends will come from, because in the past (at least for me) they always came from church. Then I wondered if I would have to go back to church, any church, in order to have friends...but instead I just prayed that God would lead me to people whom it was healthy for me to be friends with, and lo and behold...
I will pray that for you.
Manuela,
Just gotta relate to you, once again, as I think I've mentioned it before on your blog?.
I'm only out of the IC by a few (maybe 6 now) more months than you. I'm still sorting a bunch out, and trying to make sense of my life. I hope people here will have the patience needed, with those like myself, who don't know how to put the pieces of the puzzle back together, in a way that fits. Do I literally throw out everything I've ever known? Is it ALL bad? Is some worth keeping? Could it have been some truth mixed in with a lot of lie??
All I know is that I'm an honest looker. I have much going on on the inside of me, that I don't feel free to blog about on mine, but maybe I'll feel more freedom here.
I will just add, and maybe this is a start for me, that my husband is really only supportive of my newfound freedom from religion, in that he doesn't want to force me to go to church, knowing how I feel now about it. But I think that he thinks we are sort of living on the edge now. Granted, he was never a very enthusiastic attender, and especially at our last church, but he makes me worry, because of his own concern, that we are screwing up our children. He and I are not on the same page as far as how we see things, which makes it very difficult to feel like I'm moving forward.
I have to admit that the people that I feel like know me best (which is not very much) are right here online. It's the only place I've found like-minded thinking (at least to some degree). Like you, Manuela, I'm feeling a bit empty in the friend department, and yet somehow, I'm feeling more alive than ever before. It feels great not having those pseudo-friends that I was living very surfacy with. I'm concerned for my husband, since he doesn't seem to delight so much in this same freedom, and to him it just feels like having lost every "friend" we ever had. Pretty lonely. We even had an intense discussion last night as he realized that I wasn't missing certain "friends" we left behind from the previous "church", like he was. He considered them to be real friends, and I don't. They never once came looking for us or talked to us about our exit from their church. The hard part is that they are very sweet people, and they happened to be the pastors of that "church" we attended, for 7 years. We ran into them this weekend.
Sorry for such a long response. Anyways, I hope your days are getting better, Manuela. And hopefully, as time goes on, Papa is becoming more real to you everyday.
It sounds like you all really understand the hell that it is, walking into this... This morning I was like, God, what have I gotten myself into? (just cause of the sheer, utter loneliness). I wanna respond to each of your comments, cause there was such good stuff in each.. and I will when I have more time. For now I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Like I told Jon below- I woke up pretty depressed and feeling alone in the world, only to find such lovely people with love, cookies and CHOCOLATE, Wow... It really makes a difference, gives me lots of hope :)
I'm making tea right now (thanks Katherine) for me and my daughter and thinking of you all and your comforting words. I'll take the hugs (Tyler) and the prayers (Erin- nice to meet you!! :). I prayed for you yesterday and will keep your week in my prayers!).
Each of y'alls words truly are so comforting. Free Spirit, I'll pray for you too... Thanks and hang in there- thanks for sharing...
Well, my cat just got in a fight and he's a little injured. Pray for him :( He's pretty tough, though.
Does this beautiful inn have a kitty? They always seem to come with one-
Oh we ABSOLUTELY have to have a kitty. Can you post a pic of so we can all meet him?
That's a great idea, to have a kitty (heheheheh.... Sue's gonna hate that)
I am trying to figure out a way to have a photo album of all of us but as of yet I am clueless.
Hi everyone, just on my first visit, the place looks great! I don't have a lot of time to spend here but will pop in from time to time. And when I do drop by I will pray even if I don't comment.
Blessings to you all.
I'll try to post a picture of Leo, my cat next : ) Maybe the inn can have a sweet dog too (Sue?)...
I just wanted to say thanks again, just re-read your comments : ) okay, so I got through today. (I realized yesterday involved a bit of PMS as well, sorry men)
I realize now that I too am avoiding some of my church friends because I feel so raw... and some don't even know we've left yet... I don't even want to deal with it or try to explain myself, I'm tired of it. I need some time. I'm detoxing from feeling obligated to do stuff. You know, the guilt thing, yuck! I'm recognizing it more and more as I am out of the whole madness, and what subtle madness it was! Just taking one day at a time...
Praying for you free spirit. I know how you feel, especially after you see people from your ex-church who look "happy" and "together" or are so "nice." It can get confusing at times.
I pray for more harmony between you and your husband on these things... I can see how it would be hard to not have doubts about your kids sometimes, if he really does. But like you said in my blog, going for the kids is an "interesting" line of reasoning...
I'm processing a lot on my blog... It is SUCH a process, wow. I think it's so worth it. Love to you-
September 22, 2008 8:35 PM
Manuela, hang in there, woman! I left the IC over 11 years ago (and hubby and I were pastors) and I understand what you're feeling. You'll have days where you wonder if you're crazy and other days where you know you are :). They will pass, though, so just hang on through them. Vent away and ask for encouragement from your blogging friends walking the same path.
Big hugs to you as you process all of this.
Hello and thank you Tracy-
haha- You'll have days where you wonder if you're crazy and other days where you know you are. Thanks for the encouragement?! : )
(time has gotten away from me and i don't have time to proofread. i hope it makes sense!)
i just finished a batch of croissants. help yourselves.
manuela
"I hope people here will have the patience needed, with those like myself, who don't know how to put the pieces of the puzzle back together, in a way that fits. Do I literally throw out everything I've ever known? Is it ALL bad? Is some worth keeping? Could it have been some truth mixed in with a lot of lie??
for me, it has been a process of learning what the picture that the puzzle is supposed to look like. and its going to be a different picture, in my opinion, for everyone. which of course raises no end of criticism from evangelicals who then like to use their best whiny voice and say things like, "it's all about me..." which, is really not the case. but since that is their natural inclination in many cases, they have a hard time seeing how you could feel differently. not to judge them, though. i was one of them just a few years ago and considered myself to be an intelligent person. (i just didn't have or embrace the information i do now.)
but it IS about you in the sense that i believe each of us has been created unique by god to be who we are right now in our specific situations. so the "one size fits all and if it doesn't fit you need to cram yourself into it anyway" lessons of the IC don't really help everyone to find who they have been created to be. that's between you and god. only you know if you are being who you truly are on the inside.
the things that i have found to be lies more than anything are the human systems into which we have tried to contain the concepts of living in the spirit. nowadays they would have us believe that each step is as simple as 1-2-3 and if it's not there's something wrong with you. how fucking convenient for them to say.
i say there's something wrong with the system and only through much prayer and experience can you flesh out the difference between the two. in a way that makes sense to you, to help you to be who you have been created, at an internal level, to be.
make sense at all? to be fair to you this is coming after three years of being gone from IC... it sounds so easy like this, but it's not. it's really, REALLY hard and i'm not going to try to gloss that over.
free spirit
"...he doesn't want to force me to go to church, knowing how I feel now about it. But I think that he thinks we are sort of living on the edge now."
question for you - would it bother you extremely for your husband to still attend while you do not? is that not an option for the two of you? obviously i am not privy to your world and don't know your specifics...
but if it helps your husband any, or yourself, or anyone here for that matter, early on in my time of moving away from IC the spirit gave me the most beautiful piece of truth to ponder. it is a piece of truth that as of yet, the darkness has never been able to penetrate with its relenting assault of "what ifs?"
either the cross worked, or it didn't.
if it worked, and you still believe in the cross to cover you, then its all good. NOWHERE does it say that our redemption depends on our gathering together for a weekly religious observence. you are free if you believe.
and if the cross didn't work, then none of this matters anyway. nothing you can do will change anything, so you are still free.
either way, you are free.
i don't know about you, but this brought me great comfort on many days to just sit and contemplate and banish all of the darkness taht sought to hold me down and shake my faith in the early days of walking away.
hopefully something in here is helpful. here's to making it through one more day.
Jon, thanks. I'm with you on the freedom issue.
As to my husband attending church. I don't think he really wants to, for himself, but I think he thinks we're slighting our kids by not allowing them that opportunity. In that regard, I do see where we are more challenged because we choose to homeschool. So, I have gone out of my way to look for opportunities to get them out and involved with other kids this year. (which, thankfully, there are many).
I don't mean to make him sound like he thinks we're wrong. I think deep down, he actually sees the validity of what I see; you could say he's just much more cautious about all this, and maybe doesn't have full understanding of all the motives. I'm sure I'm not expressing myself very clearly. It's so hard to give an accurate picture, through words alone.
But, I do appreciate your words of encouragement.
Yeah, I think the cross worked.
Jon, that statement, "either the cross worked or it didn't." is one of the most powerful statements I have ever heard. It shuts the mouth of works based religion, stops it dead in its tracks. It is, in fact, at the heart of the struggle. And the beauty of the truth you see in it - either way, we're free. That shatters the bonds of religion in both directions. Thank you for sharing it. It is going to stick with me, I think.
Thanks again Jon! : ) Actually you were quoting Free spirit both times. But it's all good :) I could relate.
It's a painful but exhilarating process indeed... You're right, it really IS NOT "selfish" to see things differently (really differently) from the system-ized "concerned" folks. Like you said, they just haven't welcomed the information and knowledge that we once too did not know or welcome. It's not too easy to swallow. What a blind fool I was at times! I too judged what I didn't understand. If there is mercy for me, there can be for them too. But it's not fun being at the receiving end of their "concern." It actually really sucks. I feel like I deserve it or something because of how stupid I was : (
But that's not Grace, I know
i'm in kind of a "so sugary it makes your teeth hurt" kind of mood this morning so i have some fruity pebbles with me in the nook. help yourselves while supplies last.
free spirit-
"I think he thinks we're slighting our kids by not allowing them that opportunity."
i have often thought of this myself, but then i realized that although i may be slighting them in some socializing aspect, i hopefully can spare them several years of guilt and emotional manipulation. (it was in sunday school where i was taught NOT to ask difficult questions.) but since my son zaavan really isn't going to be typical, i hadn't worried about it too much until our daughter, rowyn, was born. now, i wonder where she will find her friends this young. but i do have some friends who have young children of their own. and i think perhaps i should make a more concerted effort to plan get togethers and things that remind us why its good to be human and alive. rather than cramming every moment of our lives into the dreary world of the "daytimer."
but i can understand. i think you articulated yourself well. i just wanted to make sure i understood you correctly, and i do that through asking pointed questions. i hope you don't mind. i'm glad you and your husband are closer to being on the same page. i've heard of couples where one is deconstructed and the other is absolutely not. very challenging indeed. glad this is not your case.
katherine-
i am glad you enjoyed it! i am so glad papa gave it to me. one day i was completely overcome with guilt again and suddenly that dropped into my mind/heart/spirit and i just felt everything relax. for me, it is the ultimate zen koan. to sit and contemplate being that free. truly that free. it just boggles my mind. and relaxes my being.
manuela -
just take out the crayon from your box of 64 and color me idiot... :-)
i know about "concern." "concern" is what drove to the point of suicide a couple of years ago when it was all going down for me. it is no fun to go through and the worst part, for me, was the fact that i was not even strong enough in my new found understandings ot be able to articulate them well enough for people to understand what i was saying.
i can't really explain it, but in my heart i felt like i had been given a seedling. just the tiniest little thing that i knew was going to grown into something big and beautiful and wonderful and the plant i was meant to grow my whole life, i just hadn't found it until now.
but it was confusing because it was different than all the other plants around me. even different tahn the plant i had been growing my whole life. i stopped tending the old plant and left it to die as i focused my attention on my seedling.
this, of course, caused no end of "concern" throughout IC leadership i had come to know and work alongside. why was my plant dying? why was i putting effort into this new plant? they only wanted to dissect it and tear it to shreds. somehow i knew in my heart that this could not be allowed to happen and so i fled.
the strangest thing was how they not only couldn't "hear" what i was trying to share with them, but how they became so wolf-like so quickly in their attempts to "bring me back into the fold."
it is so curious how unaware they were of the fact that they were only trying to tear me to shreds. how blind they were to their own words as they ended up quoting pharisees and the accusers of martin luther to me word for word at times. and how strange that the congregation felt it was okay for leadership to treat me as such because i was "out of god's will."
i don't know your particulars, but i HAVE been there. more than a couple of us here have.
well, well. listen to me blathering on. thanks for listening gang. it feels good to talk about this stuff. i'm done with my breakfast and have to run off to work. see you guys later!
much love
Jon-
Thanks for your encouragement.
I love this-
"i can't really explain it, but in my heart i felt like i had been given a seedling. just the tiniest little thing that i knew was going to grown into something big and beautiful and wonderful and the plant i was meant to grow my whole life, i just hadn't found it until now."
It's how I feel and that I've needed to really guard it,
"...they only wanted to dissect it and tear it to shreds. somehow i knew in my heart that this could not be allowed to happen and so i fled."- totally where I'm at!
I've been too tired too explain it, and you've done so and so poetically
Really, thank you! : ) Godspeed
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