are you the same person in real life as you are here in the blog world?
and what i mean is this... do you speak to people in everyday life the way you do here? do you have the same sorts of conversations? do they bleed over into your regular life? do you carry the same convictions and ideals with you everywhere you go? or do you find yourself living a dichotomy of being one person here, and being another in you real life?
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This is a great subject for discussion Jon. Thanks for starting it.
I think that I am pretty much the same person on line and off line. I have the same thoughts, the same thought processes and often times, the same discussions. There are a few of my readers who I know for real and see quite often. We have a great time sitting around and discussing these subjects in depth.
If I had to say that there was one difference, that difference would be that I write a lot better than I speak. Sometimes my tongue gets moving too fast for my brain and..well, you know.
Well, yes . . . if I can find someone to engage with--I seem to have people's eyes glaze over on me and moms make noises about having to go check on their kids when I start showing signs of going off into book and theology rapture. :) One of my great loves of the blogosphere is people who are willing to have these conversations rather than fleeing from them. Or (thank you, Bujold) not fleeing--too obvious--just saunter away casually. Yeah, that's it.
I think you would be surprised how much I am the same in person as I am online. If you met me, you would hear the inflections that you can't hear through the written word. But one you met me, you would never read my writing quite the same again. You would hear it the way I say it.
I'm a pretty out spoken person, and I usually say what I think. I have alot of conviction about my beliefs and values, and usually am vocal about that.
I think I"m a little louder than my written word though. ;)
Short Answer:
Yes and No and Sort Of.
Long answer:
Yes,I am the same person wherever I go. People are always telling me how "authentic" I am which is funny because I don't know how not to be real. A blessing and a curse.
No, on the other hand, I am a total fake hypocrite in some ways because I allow my co-workers to believe that I am the same person I was years ago, which is what they still are: "a fundamentalist, evangelical right-winger, born again, conservative Christian." I can't afford to lose my job so I just keep my mouth shut and let them think what they want. They do know I am a "liberal" and some of them are very concerned for me. When a few of them found out I was voting for Obama they stopped having lunch with me. Its really comical in a way.
As for having these conversations elsewhere: I WISH. I would if I could and I do if I can. I have a very good friend who's an atheist. We talk on a daily basis and usually cover all sorts of topics. I find I have much more in common with him than the 42 Christians I work with daily.
I don't know what I am or what I believe, it changes everyday and that used to drive me nuts, but now I just sort of put all of that on the back burner and am living one day at a time with gratefulness in my heart and trying to love people.
Great question.
That's hard to say. I guess I would have to ask my husband.
To the best I can discern, it's like this. I'm an introvert by nature and don't generally speak out unless I a)feel safe with someone or b)have time to think and formulate my responses. Which is why this format works so well for me.
I hold the same beliefs and opinions in real life, I just might not be as outspoken about them. And yes I have the same sorts of conversations, though not usually until I know someone fairly well (refer to point a above).
Hmm.. I am the same person.... BUT I don't talk to people on a more than surface level except for a very few close friends - too risky. But I don't talk against what I say here - just don't say much.
I am definitly the same.. but with writing a lot more thought goes into it.. you can always edit and delete what you say (which I rarely do.).. but in general I think I am exactly the same person on and off line..
My answer is pretty much identical to Erin's. I'm an introvert and generally don't speak out, even though I hold the same opinions on line as off line. There is a lot of stuff I don't feel safe enough to share in real life which is why I love blogsphere.
I also feel the same as Mike in that I write a lot better than I speak. Though I feel it is my brain that moves faster than my tongue. So I get half way through a sentence and suddenly stop because I have several other ideas jumping about in my brain and I can't decide which one to run with!
i am really enjoying this conversation. thank you all for your honesty in sharing. i'll probably share my own experience later.
i do want to address something here, however, if that's okay.
prodigaldaughter, i am deeply concerned for you and your work environment. i mentioned this on your last post, but i don't know if you saw it as it got buried with other posts shortly thereafter. if you are being treated poorly on the basis of your religious beliefs, then that is workplace harrassment. it should not be occuring. i don't know how far you want to take this, and i'm not suggesting taht you should think of taking them to court.
but for them to terminate you on the basis of your newfound religious beliefs, according to the law, would be illegal.
i only say this to help alleviate your fears of them, as well as hopefully provide you with a more comfortable work environment. if it's a topic of discussion you would like to pursue, i would love to. if you would just as soon leave well enough alone, i will respect that as well.
i just wanted to let you know the subject weighs heavy on my heart.
Being frightened of people, I would have to say no. I am what they call a shy extrovert. What that means is that i cover up my excessive shyness with being too outgoing, to the point of being obnoxious, I'm afraid.
I start talking and i can't stop, even when the other person feels uncomfortable my fear won't let my mouth shut down. I hate that. Here i can be measured and more cautious. Not controlled by fear.
What a great question...and I just had this experience last week with some people we are getting to know. Upon hearing her opinion on several matters, I opted not to share my heart with either of them because I am not sure we'd still be friends. So sad that this is true more often in the "christian" world!
I find this so often, and I think this is why I'm lonely. I also think this is different for men and women (or at least it is for my husband and I). I'm a definite introvert, but I need social interaction...I think sometimes I just take things in and observe.
I don't have many friends, but the ones I have are intimate friends, of the spiritual nature, and our relationships are based upon that for the most part, because that is just who we are...and with those, I share my heart and true feelings...other times, I'm mostly just quiet. Not necessarily a different person, just a person not willing to open up because I have been rejected too too often.
I am still the same person who believes the same thing, I just don't share it.
What a difference a safe place makes! I wonder how often this is true for my "on the surface" friends?
I'd say both yes and no.
Yes, in the sense that my thoughts, opinions and biases don't change and I'm willing to discuss, defend and debate my beliefs both online and in real life.
No, because I'm an introvert and more likely to shut up and listen rather than offering my opinion unless either it is asked for, or I feel very strongly about the issue in question.
I take more personal risks online and I feel I'm more true to myself. It's helping me to take chances in real life.
Ruth - I'll second that. I think we (here in online community) validate each other and give each other confidence to be braver in real life.
I am outspoken and opinionated in real life. Online I'm even worse :)
Ruth has brought up a great point here. Because of the nature of on-line relationships being a little more anonymous, it seems to be easier to take chances, be vocal (pe se) and say what's on your mind.
Has anyone else discovered that their level of assertiveness has increased because of their on-line interactions.
This was good enough to explore so I have placed a poll over at my site here. It will be interesting to see the results.
To be honest, I'd have to say when I first started blogging I was braver about sharing my opinions because of the anonymous nature of blogs, but lately I've been finding that's not so much the case. As I've got to know the people around here better I have become concerned about losing the relationships that I've come to enjoy so much. So I've been less inclined to share those things where I know others may disagree. I'm really very traditional in many of my beliefs which doesn't bother me but I worry it may bother others. There are things I don't share about myself for fear of being 'labelled' and ignored. It happens in my off line life and I don't want it to happen here.
I think Susan hit the other half of Ruth's very good point. That is, now that I've come to know you guys, I do worry more about what I say. On the other hand, though, because I've already been more real through this online process, the chances that something I say will shock you guys is much less than the chance I will shock some of my real life friends.
Does that make sense?
I worry more now about "Is that an insensitive thing to say" than I worry about "Am I wrong? And will people dislike me because of it?"
So I think more about how I word things online than I used to.
I would say to you, Susan, I have known you long enough to know your beliefs are more traditional, and in my opinion that doesn't matter to me at all. What matters is that you are always kind about it when you and I differ (and I've seen the same in your interactions with others, as well). I would like to think I've always been kind back to you, but I'm sure I haven't. If that's the case, I'm truly sorry.
LOL this is so cool especially Sue's answer.
I guess it is always good to be as kind as possible. In everything we do and say.
But there are the times when tempers flare and apologies may have to be given.
We are unlikely to see that here.
So in a way, although this may be a salve to our own tangible reality,
we cannot be exactly who our everyday homies see.
Phew - Erin and Susan beat me to it. :) Reading thru everyone's responses, I was starting to think I might be alone in a boat... which isn't ALL bad - I hear kayaking is fun, and I've always wanted to try it... just not by myself... lol. :)
My answer to Jon's question is YES and NO. When I first started blogging, no one really read it, or if they did, they never said anything. I haven't the foggiest how people found my blog or why they read it - mostly I write because I'm compelled to - but I also find now that I write because I know people will read it - and as I come to know my audience I tend to start - tho not always intentionally - curtailing what I say to who might read it. I *DON'T* want to offend anyone. That said - it's also simply a reality that I *am* a lot more conservative than many of the people I've come in contact with as a blogger. I've never felt unaccepted for that, per se, but it does mean that I tend to stay out of some of the conversations that are - for lack of a better word - more controversial. This isn't any different than what I'd do if we were sitting around table tho. I'm just a conflict-avoider. Sometimes to my detriment. Sometimes possibly even to the detriment of the people with whom I disagree.
Because while I may be wrong on some things (and likely am) - I know that I only learn when people push back - and it has only recently occured to me that doing the same thing for someone else might actually help them. It was Erin, actually, who said something to me last week, about how she knew me in text only, but that she saw me as someone who'd been given the grace to love people, that really helped me start to see that maybe being more forthright about what I think could be a good thing. Because it's true - I do love people, and I've come to love so many of you as I've read your blogs and heard your stories. And if you know that, then you will always know - even if I say something poorly, or say something with which you heartily disagree - that I wouldn't say something (intentionally) with a judgmental spirit - and if it ever came off that way, I could probably trust you to know that I was speaking out of honest conviction - even if you believed me to be completely wrong. I extend grace - I ought to be able to expect it from others, too... but I'm realizing, thinking about Jon's question, that I don't always expect that. And that it's true in my "real" life, too. So that's something to work on.
I will say one other thing - now that there's a lot of Torch people who read my blog, I tend to write less specifically about things going on in my life than I used to. I'm not sure that's all that great... but there are confidentiality issues I (un?)fortunately have to consider sometimes... But I'm also finding that while it's always been true that what I blog about are the things that happen and the conversations/thoughts I have - the conversations that happen here in the blogosphere are spilling over into my real life. That conversation at Jon's for example, about the greater things. I'd already been thinking about all that, and it has MESSED with me, big time - and stirred my faith a ton.
so, summation: blogospherical community and real life community - existing in a symbiotic fashion these days. and it's been really good. I feel like I've grown a ton in both "places" as a result of their co-existence.
Late to the conversation, as usual.
I guess I'm pretty much the same - I would have any of the conversations IRL that I have on my blog. I guess I'm a lot more diverse in reality though. My blog is really on a specific topic, not just everyday life - so if you spoke to me in person you'd get updates on the kids, learn that I just put the washing on the line and probably what I'm planning on making for dinner. That kind of general stuff mostly stays off my blog. The only other difference is that I'm more eloquent in writing, which is probably the case with most people. I'm not shy - I talk a lot - I'm just not as eloquent when there is no backspace button :-)
I've been wanting to respond to this... but it's been crazy around here cause we have to get our house ready to show to prospective buyers...
Anyway, I'm me everywhere I go, more so now having left the IC... I hate hypocrisy in general... ( in me or others) I'm thankful God has been teaching me about the importance of being genuinely me (from the inside out), everywhere. Any other way to live is just torture sooner or later, I know that. With him I'm more me than ever. It's also a process.
I could relate to what Kari said about having been rejected enough that it causes you to clam up. I often will until I feel people are trustworthy...
In the past I have been way too trusting too fast. Now I am a bit more cautious. Sometimes I get fearful and sometimes I can become pretty bold. But either way, i try to just be where I'm at, run to Dad and know I'm accepted and loved no matter what.
Good question to ponder... It leads to the question of all questions in a way-- Who are you, really? I like to answer this question, if just for myself, fairly often. It helps me figure some things out. I figure if I'm not being "me" it's because I've forgotten who I really am...
Susan I identify with what you are saying here:
"There are things I don't share about myself for fear of being 'labelled' and ignored. It happens in my off line life and I don't want it to happen here."
This is a trap that I could very well fall into if I wanted to try to fit in. That is why I am really trying to remain true to myself while interacting with others.
I have found that the blogging community has been very welcoming and we all enjoy one another's differences. I've learned so much from all of you.
With blogging, we each show a window into our own heart so it is easier to trust and make allowances for one another. I love that words of blessing and encouragment flow freely among us all.
Yes Happy - I think you could say anything to anyone and they would receive it with a smile. Your love for people just shows through. I encourage you to press into confrontation if you need to. I know you can do it with grace and love.
since we've been a little dry in the snack department, i thought i would take it upon myself to make some coffee cake. it should be done in a couple of minutes and be warm, crumbly, and delicious. then i thought maybe later i could make some fajitas for everyone to have something a little more substantial. :-)
there's way too much here to respond to each of you individually. but seeing as how this is simply a discussion in the kitchen, i'm going to relieve myself of feeling the need. hope that's okay with you cats.
i simply asked this question because it is something i go in and out with. some days i am exactly the same, and other days i'm much more closed off. because people CAN be volatile and i HAVE been rejected before. but what i really want IRL is the ability to look every person in the eye without fear. and even more than that, with complete acceptance and grace. because that's what i want from others. and you know the old saying, "treat others how you want to be treated."
i have found that when i am like this in my real life, and just as vocal as i am here about my opinions or thoughts, whether i think they are the majority opinion in the room or not, i often find that others think about these same things but have been too afraid to speak of them for the same reasons that we were afraid.
which, i learned, means that BOTH PARTIES actually want connection and vulnerability, but think that others don't want it from us. which, in some cases is true.
but i have to be honest. i have found that more often than not other people are just as interested. they just didn't know it was okay to have conversations like this out loud in public places. :-)
seems silly but its true.
as mia wallace wondered aloud in pulp fiction, "Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullshit in order to be comfortable?"
Yum Jon, thanks! Can't wait fot the fajitas! : )
Yeah, Jon, good ponderings. I agree fulsomely.
I love fajitas so very much :)
It interesting to hear how our blog lives relate to our real lives. I think my challenge is to be more real in both realms.
Erin, you have nothing to apologize for. Since I’m highly involved in an IC, I think I should be apologizing to all those who have ever been hurt by an IC.
oh susan... :-)
don't ever apologize for finding and being a part of something we all wanted for ourselves. a church that preaches and lives out love and grace.
Ditto what Jon said.
Thing is I know I have been really angry at times in the past, and I am sure that has been directed at you (Susan), and other friends who still are happy in church. But I'm hoping I've mostly outgrown that by now.
My last church preached grace and lived it out in many ways.
I still feel God called me to leave. It's what I was called to do, but I don't expect others to do the same at all. Each person needs to be where they feel God has them and where they can do the good they need to do. I 'm thankful Dad got me to the point where I was at peace with leaving...It was the right time for me. I served whole heartedly within the institutions I was placed at for many years. Dad opened the door and basically said my healing was outside the institution... And now I'm tasting it. If he ever calls me back " in " I would go. But I truly don't believe he will ( I hope he doesn't)
I will always be part of a body and the body. We are all part of the church.
more came to mind...
To me it's not about being in or out of mainstream church so much as it is about loving where God has you. And not letting anything hinder that... I don't judge people on whether or not they are in the IC... I "judge" them on what kind of person they are overall. I'm defining "judge" here as "forming an opinion" about someone and that takes time. It takes time to get to know what people are really about.... Some people can't think outside the IC box and don't even want to.
Obviously, the folks here at Rahab's can (including ones who are involved in an IC : )
Now that's a good place to be in, Manu :) Yay :) Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!!!!!!!!
It's easy to get impaled on the evils of the system and stay there. But then we can't can we? Have to move on past that, to a place where the system just deflates back to its normal size and the people in and out of it grow larger.
Thanks Sue!! : ) Amen sister!
Thanks everyone :)
I just love this place. And you guys. In these last months when I haven't had the emotional energy to keep my blog up, it's so nice to know you all are here, loving on me and each other. I just have to say that.
I also have to say that thanks to Sue, George Michael's 'Freedom' is in my head. (Not the Wham! one, the solo one.)
"I think there's something you should know
I think it's time I told you so
There's something deep inside of me
There's someone else I've got to be"
Why because of me?
Funny that it's George Michael. I was doing the dishes yesterday and just could not get out of my head the words to I Want Your Sex. and as I stood there washing the cups and plates, I was thinking about the voice-over bit when he's singing, "Sex is natural, sex is good. Not everybody do it, but everybody should" and I thoguht about how he has just about HAD sex with everybody anyway, hasn't he?
Them's the things I think about when I'm doing the dishes :0)
Because you were ranting about Freedom and for some reason it made me think of that song. I guess I would have been better off with Free Bird, or just about anything that didn't inspire you to share this visual.
Love you anyhow.
Thanks. It's only right that you love the freaks as well as the lovely :)
For sure!
However, I'm not so sure about loving people who don't cuss and throw flannelgraphs. This is a stretch for me. ;-)
Here's my answer.
jim! great to meet you! very cool post, thanks for sharing it. i especially appreciated the ever creative "RUUIRL2"?
very OU812.
(shut up, erin.) ;-)
ROTFLMAO
I just got it then what OU812 means. Derr. What a dick :)
I prefer 5150 myself
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